Obama: “I want to end the mindset that got us into war in the first place”

[hadhramaut]

Obama: “I want to end the mindset that got us into war in the first place”

05/02/2008 11:30:00 PM GMT Comments (62) Add a comment





The issue on which Sen. Obama scored the most points in the January 31st debate with Sen. Clinton was the Iraq occupation.


By Kevin Zeese

2008 Campaign shows necessity to build a movement for fundamental change away from militarism.

The issue on which Sen. Obama scored the most points in the January 31st debate with Sen. Clinton was the Iraq occupation. While Iraq has been pushed from the front pages, despite continued carnage, it remains a priority for many voters. Iraq persists to be an area of weakness for Clinton in the primary.

(See video: Obama and Clinton final debate Part 1, Part 2)

Indeed, the most recent CNN poll, which has Obama in the lead nationally for the first time, shows Democratic voters trust Clinton more on health care and the economy, but trusted Obama on Iraq. Iraq is the issue propelling Obama ahead of Clinton.

Obama made a number of points on Iraq in their last debate, finishing with: “I don't want to just end the war, but I want to end the mindset that got us into war in the first place.” He followed that lofty goal with a promise: “That's the kind of leadership that I think we need from the next president of the United States. That's what I intend to provide.”

Obama blames conventional, Washington thinking for the war saying: “. . . conventional thinking in Washington lined up for war. The pundits judged the political winds to be blowing in the direction of the President. Despite, or perhaps because of how much experience they had in Washington, too many politicians feared looking weak and failed to ask hard questions. Too many took the President at his word instead of reading the intelligence for themselves. Congress gave the President the authority to go to war. Our only opportunity to stop the war was lost.”

The mindset for war often infects Washington. Since World War II the U.S. has been a nation at war more often than not, and whether at war or peace, consistently invests in building the most powerful military in world history.

Peace Voters have already begun the process of changing that conventional thinking mindset in Washington. Even Senator Clinton, who has voted for the war from the beginning, is now saying “I will do everything I can to get as many of our troops out as quickly as possible.” She promises to take one to two brigades out per month.

Ending the “mindset” of war is essentially the position of the organization I direct, VotersForPeace. Not only do we want to end the Iraq occupation but also prevent future wars of aggression. We urge people to take the peace pledge which states: “I will only vote for or support federal candidates who publicly commit to a speedy end to the Iraq war, and to preventing future ‘wars of aggression’.” See VotersForPeace.US.

Obama’s soaring rhetoric of hope and unity along with the proposition of the U.S. electing the first African American president makes me want to exclaim ‘eurkea!’ finally a candidate who can bring much-needed change to the United States.

And, changing the mindset that leads to war would result in other changes in Washington. On foreign policy the U.S. will need to work with other countries, not dominate them and rely on negotiation and diplomacy rather than force. And, to prevent violence, the U.S. will need to help put in place solutions to the underlying problems that lead to military conflict.

Ending the mindset of war would also change domestic policy. For decades the U.S. has been investing in the military economy at the expense of the civilian economy. And, it shows – in the loss of industry, a weakened middle class, a failing infrastructure, and a deteriorating economy.

Could Obama really mean it? Does he really want to end the mindset that leads to war?

How do voters opposed to war square Sen. Obama’s comment with his advocacy for an even bigger military – adding 100,000 more troops? The average annual cost of maintaining a single service member currently exceeds $100,000. The cost of these troops is tens of billions more dollars for the military. And, if the U.S. has another 100,000 troops isn’t its leadership more likely to use them? Isn’t this a signal to the military industrial complex that Obama will not challenge them?

Many members of VotersForPeace, including me, have been critical of Obama’s votes on the war. We all know he spoke out against the war when he was a state senator. He described it as “a rash war” that would result in “an occupation of undetermined length, with undetermined costs, and undetermined consequences.” He was right. But we also know that since coming to the senate his record has been the same as Sen. Clinton. He has voted to give Bush all the funds he has requested, with no strings attached and continue the occupation of Iraq.

And, peace advocates have seen Obama play to the right wing Israeli lobby, missing his first senate vote to speak to AIPAC event and telling them what they want to hear regarding Iran – “all options are on the table.” Yes, he says he wants negotiation with Iran at the same time he keeps the military option available.

So, what is the meaning of Sen. Obama’s comment? Can we trust him to really “end the mindset” that gets the U.S. into continuous wars? It is a lofty goal and would be an epic political struggle. It would require him to challenge the military industrial complex, the oil industry, the pro-war Israeli lobby and others who profit from war. Does Obama have the strength to overcome these political adversaries?

So what is a peace voter supposed to do?

Obama has consistently said, on issue after issue, that change is going to require the people to be organized, active and vocal. He says “change does not happen from the top down, but from the bottom up.” An organized citizenry is especially required when a fundamental paradigm shift is needed in a policy that has deep roots. And militarism runs deep in the United States where half the discretioy spending goes to the military and with the U.S. already spending as much as the rest of the world combined on its armed forces. The strength of the military industrial complex was evident way back when Eisenhower warned the country about it in his farewell speech in 1961.

During the election year some peace voters will take Obama at his finest words and work to elect him hoping that he will provide the leadership he promises. Some may even be satisfied with Hillary Clinton’s election year conversion.

Others, will look to the Green Party which has two strong peace candidates in Ralph Nader and former congresswoman Cynthia McKinney or other third parties like the Libertarians and Constitution Parties which also are running anti-war candidates. Nader has questioned whether Obama has the backbone to stand up to the special interests on the issue of militarism and points out how Bush justified the war based on Clinton policies. McKinney seeks to lead a “peace slate” to end the war and, like Nader, opposes the bloated military and intelligence budgets.

Whatever choice is made, the 2008 election year is an opportunity to build a movement for deep-seated change away from militarism. And after the election peace advocates need to come together to pressure whoever is elected, to end not only the mindset that has led the U.S. to ongoing wars but the ongoing investment in the military economy.

The election promises to continue to be a debate on the Iraq war. Obama said as much during the debate: “I will be the Democrat who will be most effective in going up against a John McCain, or any other Republican -- because they all want basically a continuation of George Bush's policies.”

Clinton concurs that Iraq will be central to the election year saying “There will be a great debate between us and the Republicans, because the Republicans are still committed to George Bush's policy, and some are more committed than others” specifically mentioning Senator McCain.

In fact, Obama seems to relish the battle, especially if it is with Senator McCain: “I will be the Democrat who will be most effective in going up against a John McCain . . . because I will offer a clear contrast as somebody who never supported this war, thought it was a bad idea.”

In fact, the peace movement’s job in the 2008 election is to make sure the war is an issue through November no matter who the nominee. Senator McCain is a superhawk who jokingly sings about bombing Iran and told a town hall meeting in New Hampshire that it would be “fine with me” if the U.S. stayed “maybe a hundred years in Iraq.” McCain will be quick to the trigger in using the U.S. military.

Building the anti-war movement is a major goal of the election year. It will be critical in 2009 that the movement be stronger than it is today because it will either be facing a militarist in John McCain, or a Democrat who has consistently voted for war funding while saying they will begin to withdraw troops from Iraq. How much progress the United States makes on ending the mindset that leads to ongoing wars will depend more on how well peace advocates organize and how aggressively political pressure is applied to the next president.

-- Kevin Zeese is executive director of Voters for Peace
(http://www.VotersForPeace.US).


Source: AJP

[hadhramaut]

Comments [ Send your comment ]


To Kevin Zeese from USA 05/02/2008 05:46:09 PM IP


Pretty slanted article kid
I checked out your little board, and your rhetoric on there sounds like all of these insane people who post here. Ranting about "warmongers" and the like. Why, Mr. patriotic American, are you on staff for this mag AL? I want Ma Cain all the way. If AL, and Ben LAden want ron paul or "the black one", then I want Ma Cain.

David from Canada 05/02/2008 05:55:21 PM IP


In order to change the mind set that results in failed wars...
you would have to seek and destroy people like the first post in this article, and ensure they do not breed. Continued juvenile ignorance is no longer an option for the United States.

Hi David, Lee from USA 05/02/2008 06:08:27 PM IP


So Little david , Now you are advocating my murder?
I might have to do a little tracking and pay you a visit if you are trying to threaten people. Is that what your doing Little David?

Shmuel from Canada 05/02/2008 06:14:01 PM IP


David Proposes Eugenics - He Is One of the Proponents to Mass Murder
Now David shows his true side. Even though he now lives in Canada due to his parents running from the control of his brethren in the ME, he still espouses their view to kill all those (and their possible offspring) who he disagrees with. Can any one spell Sad am? I'm a dinner jacket speaks in the same way as David. That is the speech of the ex tree mist Is limit. Just as the people who run this place seek to control our speech. Had they the power, they would do far more and far worse to us. Boom a will also deal with this threat and very likely in a far better way than Clint on would. Some ex tree mist no minds see him as an easy mark. He is NOT. He wants out of Iraq because that is a failed attempt. He will deal with Iran and the ex tree mists far more harshly than Bush or Clint on. He will just not produce failure prone plans to deal with them. Those such as David had better fear Bark Boom A.

David from Canada 05/02/2008 06:14:22 PM IP


You dont murder rodents, you kill them.
The difference is in the cranial capacity and what one says and does with it. Accusing a nation falsely and committing shock and awe to half million of it's citizens is animalistic. Whether the false accuser dies is irrelevant.

Henry from USA 05/02/2008 06:20:24 PM IP


Reality
If we want change for better Mamba *even his name is a ban name* is the one. If we want of the same thing or worse Hillary or Cane are the one. Both are pro wars and sanctions, and the end result of these two is death and misery. Her husband put sanction on Iraq and the end result was death of near one million souls and mostly babies and infants. The other factor is that $he is part CHOOSE, but Cane is Christians. As such $he would be more anti Is Lee Am, which means more wars in ME and the nature would be more on re legion base. This is the most dangerous type of war that can exist. So, $he is the most dangerous one of the three. Unfortunately, Israel and Israeli CHOOSE, have made near one and half billion enemies to the point that they are waiting to vanish entire state of Israel which are not more than ten million souls. $he would facilitate this, the most among the three. I think $he would end up as nightmare for Israelis. Cane wants war with Iran too, but war between Christians and Mo S lee MS are not the same as war between CHOOSE and Mo s lee ms. If you seek peace Mamba is the one. Peace upon us.

REALIST from United Kingdom 05/02/2008 06:24:22 PM IP


VOTE FOR HIM TO END THE ISRAELI LAND THIEVES LOBBY!
AND SPEND THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS MONEY ON HEALTH CARE RATHER THAN THE ISRAELI CON ARTIST FREE LOADERS PITY SEEKERS!

Naive Unelectable Politicians from USA 05/02/2008 06:26:35 PM IP


Personally I vote for getting rid of the forever violent ME mind set, that got us into war in the first place, BUT how elect able is the idea of exterminating the ME to do it ?
Did this guy even get any votes in his own similar dysfunctional campaign ? Well, regardless, his own naive being out of touch with reality, also prevented him from being elected himself ? This is a problem with all who are politically green, or out right naive, live out of touch with reality, and always tell both themselves and others their use less, impractical, fantasy views of the real world, be they of the indoctrinated ME mind set, the whacked out old hippie daisy heads types, the tin foil hat wearing insanity cases, or merely naive non elect able politicians, is that the vast majority of people on earth live in the reality of the real world and never buy any of their mindless fantasy world $hit ? Look at just how ridiculously outlandish the claim itself is, for in order to get rid of the "mind set that got us into war in the first place", the centuries old entire forever warring ME mind set would have to be exterminated, "in the first place", PERIOD ?

AB from Iran 05/02/2008 06:27:08 PM IP


It is foolish to bet on unborn kid.
I do not why should read these nonsense and betting on unborn kid, he has to go a long way before anyone can count on him and he will be tears a part by Americans domestic enemies, he is a fantasy in Hollywood daily life. His popularity is raising not he is a revolutioy man; his popularity is rising because he knows how to talk with helpless and hopeless Americans. Nothing personal but, it is reality in Americans politics.

David from Canada 05/02/2008 06:52:23 PM IP


Mule, walls are monuments to the ignorance of seeking perfect security
How long did that security last? There is only one state in the mid east with weapons of mass destruction, the same one accusing and cheering wars on another. The question "why do they not like us" has been answered, to anyone paying attention. More wars and the same accusations all over again and again but expecting different results has not brought anyone more security, quite the opposite. I dont expect support for israel will change in america, but at least after all this they know what is being done in their names by people who knowingly deceived them. The result can only be called murder.

Gary from USA 05/02/2008 07:05:05 PM IP


This authors mind set leads to war
We ignored the Japanese till all of Asia was engulfed, Ignored Germany until millions died, Ignored North Korea and China until they came in waves, pulled out of Lebanon and let the Syrians occupy it, Ignored Serbia until photos of the camps appeared, abandoned Afghanistan to fester and rot, ignored Iraq until Kuwait fell, ignored Somalia and millions starved. How much time do these liberal isolationist elitists have to see history repeat itself before they get the picture? Europe and Asia now fall under the protective sphere of American power without the loss of sovereignty, and proper under a peace unparallel in human history. Europe and Asia not at war with themselves unthinkable, unbelievable, no one could have imagined. It is long overdue that this sphere of protection is extended to the troubled Middle East so they can prosper in peace as well. Instead of allowing the usual liberal non sense to sow the seeds of the next catastrophe with their poorly veiled selfish ignorance.

SAB dar al Haarb from Canada 05/02/2008 07:23:08 PM IP


David.
The Nazi S S also likened themselves to rodent catchers when carrying out their duties for the Final Solution. I am glad you have come out and shown your true colours.

To SAB from Thailand 05/02/2008 07:27:39 PM IP


I think David is Lee and Former's new name
They have the same murderous attitude and lack of compassion for humanity.

NEOLIBERAL from Argentina 05/02/2008 07:34:16 PM IP


i have read Naive Politicians post THREE times
and i still cannot comprehend or understand it, this person needs to learn the english language, sentence structure and stop having a tendency to go off TANGENT!!!!!!!!!!!

Gary from USA 05/02/2008 07:36:10 PM IP


David
I think you are making things to complicated, Israel a modern democratic nation were millions from all over the world of every persuasion live in peace and prosperity to include hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. Then there is the Palestinian territories were militant fundamentalist mentality rules and millions go hungry, live to perpetuate a constant state of war, and slide ever further into poverty and despair. What is all the debate about obviously one side has it right and the other wrong to busy looking for excuses for their failings?

David from Canada 05/02/2008 07:48:20 PM IP


Nazi mind set
What's this sob? Nazi now? You mean like one soldier dies and ten civilians are killed in retaliation, collective punishment, or ghettos, or rounding up "suspects" in the night? You mean those nazi tactics, eh sob?

David from Canada 05/02/2008 07:53:38 PM IP


Gary, who are you fooling with that?
So israel is like a west democracy now? One with second and third class citizens? You remind me of the way south africans use to go around and justify their existence. Worked great, right Gary? israel is NOT like a west democracy, it is their to usher in exclusivity for one people only, the rest are only given temporary citizenship which can be revoked for the slightest infraction. You do not have a democracy where some are considered more valuable than others. Just like that "democracy" called south africa and it's eventual fate. Move on.

The Warring ME mind set from USA 05/02/2008 07:53:38 PM IP


This authors mind set leads to war. Well take that one step more, and more directly to the point and the topic at hand ?
In Beanies very own words, this guy from the violent ME mind set with the inbred ME hat reads, the endless futile ME warring mentality, throw in the indoctrinated entire ME mind sets attempts to weep out the Israeli's and conquer the world with the old broken sword of the ME for centuries, who's ME inhuman mind set caused billions in destruction and slaughtered three thousand plus people on nine eleven, the guy Beanie from "the warring ME mind set that got us into war in the first place", why was he so "SHOCKED" in his own words at the overwhelming response to his warring ME mind sets inhuman acts ? Simply put, Beanie himself announced and thought he could actually do it all and get away with it, solely because of decades of this very same limp wrist west turn idle esoteric kid glove, poesy mentality, mind set of letting the inhuman last barbarian's on earth the ME get away with global murder and war for so long, "in the first place" ?

Henry from USA 05/02/2008 07:56:17 PM IP


To Gary
Gary is like a republican who throws lies and think that others are more on to understand or challenge it. We created most of those that you said we ignored. If you are after truth, and want to learn, go to this place *information clearing house* all one word, point *.* info, forward slash *article one seven zero five three* *all one word, point *.* and use first alphabet of He, To, Me. Peace upon us.

Gary's science fiction story from Netherlands 05/02/2008 07:57:34 PM IP


Israel's apartheid state
Gary, Is real is democratic for the chosen people, and even within that ethnic group there is a distinction between black, european and ME chosen people. This is a democracy? What a joke. Arab people are second right citizens, not enjoying the same right as european chosen people. Dream on about your fake democracy in Me. There is none, and will certainly not be in any arab state as long as Is real keeps ensuring that dictators stay in power who receive huge amounts of dollars to ensure no democracy comes to their countries which would cut any diplomatic ties with Is real. And all of this death and oppression to keep your chosen people safe in their luxury homes built on the graves of Palestinians. what a beautiful example of democracy.. Chosen people, you christians are really incredible. Why would the all mighty choose one ethnic group above everybody else, you are no .. fill in the blanks.

[hadhramaut]

Comments [ Send your comment ]


To Kevin Zeese from USA 05/02/2008 05:46:09 PM IP


Pretty slanted article kid
I checked out your little board, and your rhetoric on there sounds like all of these insane people who post here. Ranting about "warmongers" and the like. Why, Mr. patriotic American, are you on staff for this mag AL? I want Ma Cain all the way. If AL, and Ben LAden want ron paul or "the black one", then I want Ma Cain.

David from Canada 05/02/2008 05:55:21 PM IP


In order to change the mind set that results in failed wars...
you would have to seek and destroy people like the first post in this article, and ensure they do not breed. Continued juvenile ignorance is no longer an option for the United States.

Hi David, Lee from USA 05/02/2008 06:08:27 PM IP


So Little david , Now you are advocating my murder?
I might have to do a little tracking and pay you a visit if you are trying to threaten people. Is that what your doing Little David?

Shmuel from Canada 05/02/2008 06:14:01 PM IP


David Proposes Eugenics - He Is One of the Proponents to Mass Murder
Now David shows his true side. Even though he now lives in Canada due to his parents running from the control of his brethren in the ME, he still espouses their view to kill all those (and their possible offspring) who he disagrees with. Can any one spell Sad am? I'm a dinner jacket speaks in the same way as David. That is the speech of the ex tree mist Is limit. Just as the people who run this place seek to control our speech. Had they the power, they would do far more and far worse to us. Boom a will also deal with this threat and very likely in a far better way than Clint on would. Some ex tree mist no minds see him as an easy mark. He is NOT. He wants out of Iraq because that is a failed attempt. He will deal with Iran and the ex tree mists far more harshly than Bush or Clint on. He will just not produce failure prone plans to deal with them. Those such as David had better fear Bark Boom A.

David from Canada 05/02/2008 06:14:22 PM IP


You dont murder rodents, you kill them.
The difference is in the cranial capacity and what one says and does with it. Accusing a nation falsely and committing shock and awe to half million of it's citizens is animalistic. Whether the false accuser dies is irrelevant.

Henry from USA 05/02/2008 06:20:24 PM IP


Reality
If we want change for better Mamba *even his name is a ban name* is the one. If we want of the same thing or worse Hillary or Cane are the one. Both are pro wars and sanctions, and the end result of these two is death and misery. Her husband put sanction on Iraq and the end result was death of near one million souls and mostly babies and infants. The other factor is that $he is part CHOOSE, but Cane is Christians. As such $he would be more anti Is Lee Am, which means more wars in ME and the nature would be more on re legion base. This is the most dangerous type of war that can exist. So, $he is the most dangerous one of the three. Unfortunately, Israel and Israeli CHOOSE, have made near one and half billion enemies to the point that they are waiting to vanish entire state of Israel which are not more than ten million souls. $he would facilitate this, the most among the three. I think $he would end up as nightmare for Israelis. Cane wants war with Iran too, but war between Christians and Mo S lee MS are not the same as war between CHOOSE and Mo s lee ms. If you seek peace Mamba is the one. Peace upon us.

REALIST from United Kingdom 05/02/2008 06:24:22 PM IP


VOTE FOR HIM TO END THE ISRAELI LAND THIEVES LOBBY!
AND SPEND THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS MONEY ON HEALTH CARE RATHER THAN THE ISRAELI CON ARTIST FREE LOADERS PITY SEEKERS!

Naive Unelectable Politicians from USA 05/02/2008 06:26:35 PM IP


Personally I vote for getting rid of the forever violent ME mind set, that got us into war in the first place, BUT how elect able is the idea of exterminating the ME to do it ?
Did this guy even get any votes in his own similar dysfunctional campaign ? Well, regardless, his own naive being out of touch with reality, also prevented him from being elected himself ? This is a problem with all who are politically green, or out right naive, live out of touch with reality, and always tell both themselves and others their use less, impractical, fantasy views of the real world, be they of the indoctrinated ME mind set, the whacked out old hippie daisy heads types, the tin foil hat wearing insanity cases, or merely naive non elect able politicians, is that the vast majority of people on earth live in the reality of the real world and never buy any of their mindless fantasy world $hit ? Look at just how ridiculously outlandish the claim itself is, for in order to get rid of the "mind set that got us into war in the first place", the centuries old entire forever warring ME mind set would have to be exterminated, "in the first place", PERIOD ?

AB from Iran 05/02/2008 06:27:08 PM IP


It is foolish to bet on unborn kid.
I do not why should read these nonsense and betting on unborn kid, he has to go a long way before anyone can count on him and he will be tears a part by Americans domestic enemies, he is a fantasy in Hollywood daily life. His popularity is raising not he is a revolutioy man; his popularity is rising because he knows how to talk with helpless and hopeless Americans. Nothing personal but, it is reality in Americans politics.

David from Canada 05/02/2008 06:52:23 PM IP


Mule, walls are monuments to the ignorance of seeking perfect security
How long did that security last? There is only one state in the mid east with weapons of mass destruction, the same one accusing and cheering wars on another. The question "why do they not like us" has been answered, to anyone paying attention. More wars and the same accusations all over again and again but expecting different results has not brought anyone more security, quite the opposite. I dont expect support for israel will change in america, but at least after all this they know what is being done in their names by people who knowingly deceived them. The result can only be called murder.

Gary from USA 05/02/2008 07:05:05 PM IP


This authors mind set leads to war
We ignored the Japanese till all of Asia was engulfed, Ignored Germany until millions died, Ignored North Korea and China until they came in waves, pulled out of Lebanon and let the Syrians occupy it, Ignored Serbia until photos of the camps appeared, abandoned Afghanistan to fester and rot, ignored Iraq until Kuwait fell, ignored Somalia and millions starved. How much time do these liberal isolationist elitists have to see history repeat itself before they get the picture? Europe and Asia now fall under the protective sphere of American power without the loss of sovereignty, and proper under a peace unparallel in human history. Europe and Asia not at war with themselves unthinkable, unbelievable, no one could have imagined. It is long overdue that this sphere of protection is extended to the troubled Middle East so they can prosper in peace as well. Instead of allowing the usual liberal non sense to sow the seeds of the next catastrophe with their poorly veiled selfish ignorance.

SAB dar al Haarb from Canada 05/02/2008 07:23:08 PM IP


David.
The Nazi S S also likened themselves to rodent catchers when carrying out their duties for the Final Solution. I am glad you have come out and shown your true colours.

To SAB from Thailand 05/02/2008 07:27:39 PM IP


I think David is Lee and Former's new name
They have the same murderous attitude and lack of compassion for humanity.

NEOLIBERAL from Argentina 05/02/2008 07:34:16 PM IP


i have read Naive Politicians post THREE times
and i still cannot comprehend or understand it, this person needs to learn the english language, sentence structure and stop having a tendency to go off TANGENT!!!!!!!!!!!

Gary from USA 05/02/2008 07:36:10 PM IP


David
I think you are making things to complicated, Israel a modern democratic nation were millions from all over the world of every persuasion live in peace and prosperity to include hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. Then there is the Palestinian territories were militant fundamentalist mentality rules and millions go hungry, live to perpetuate a constant state of war, and slide ever further into poverty and despair. What is all the debate about obviously one side has it right and the other wrong to busy looking for excuses for their failings?

David from Canada 05/02/2008 07:48:20 PM IP


Nazi mind set
What's this sob? Nazi now? You mean like one soldier dies and ten civilians are killed in retaliation, collective punishment, or ghettos, or rounding up "suspects" in the night? You mean those nazi tactics, eh sob?

David from Canada 05/02/2008 07:53:38 PM IP


Gary, who are you fooling with that?
So israel is like a west democracy now? One with second and third class citizens? You remind me of the way south africans use to go around and justify their existence. Worked great, right Gary? israel is NOT like a west democracy, it is their to usher in exclusivity for one people only, the rest are only given temporary citizenship which can be revoked for the slightest infraction. You do not have a democracy where some are considered more valuable than others. Just like that "democracy" called south africa and it's eventual fate. Move on.

The Warring ME mind set from USA 05/02/2008 07:53:38 PM IP


This authors mind set leads to war. Well take that one step more, and more directly to the point and the topic at hand ?
In Beanies very own words, this guy from the violent ME mind set with the inbred ME hat reads, the endless futile ME warring mentality, throw in the indoctrinated entire ME mind sets attempts to weep out the Israeli's and conquer the world with the old broken sword of the ME for centuries, who's ME inhuman mind set caused billions in destruction and slaughtered three thousand plus people on nine eleven, the guy Beanie from "the warring ME mind set that got us into war in the first place", why was he so "SHOCKED" in his own words at the overwhelming response to his warring ME mind sets inhuman acts ? Simply put, Beanie himself announced and thought he could actually do it all and get away with it, solely because of decades of this very same limp wrist west turn idle esoteric kid glove, poesy mentality, mind set of letting the inhuman last barbarian's on earth the ME get away with global murder and war for so long, "in the first place" ?

Henry from USA 05/02/2008 07:56:17 PM IP


To Gary
Gary is like a republican who throws lies and think that others are more on to understand or challenge it. We created most of those that you said we ignored. If you are after truth, and want to learn, go to this place *information clearing house* all one word, point *.* info, forward slash *article one seven zero five three* *all one word, point *.* and use first alphabet of He, To, Me. Peace upon us.

Gary's science fiction story from Netherlands 05/02/2008 07:57:34 PM IP

[hadhramaut]

Gary's science fiction story from Netherlands 05/02/2008 07:57:34 PM IP


Israel's apartheid state
Gary, Is real is democratic for the chosen people, and even within that ethnic group there is a distinction between black, european and ME chosen people. This is a democracy? What a joke. Arab people are second right citizens, not enjoying the same right as european chosen people. Dream on about your fake democracy in Me. There is none, and will certainly not be in any arab state as long as Is real keeps ensuring that dictators stay in power who receive huge amounts of dollars to ensure no democracy comes to their countries which would cut any diplomatic ties with Is real. And all of this death and oppression to keep your chosen people safe in their luxury homes built on the graves of Palestinians. what a beautiful example of democracy.. Chosen people, you christians are really incredible. Why would the all mighty choose one ethnic group above everybody else, you are no .. fill in the blanks.

Gary from USA 05/02/2008 07:59:33 PM IP


Iran
You are quite correct it is way too early to tell anything and campaign promises melt away like the snows of January in the thaw of that first presidential spring. America will remain in Iraq in force for the next thirty years and this is the best thing that could ever happen to Iran. On my last visit I was asked what do Americans think of Iran at least fifty times. I replied we respect and admire the traditions, history and culture, but have little use for the current regime, and do not feel they are best for Iranians. The vast majority of Iranians responded with something like this "Seems we have much in common, with the Americans after all" This even got a laugh from the soldiers when the political officers were not there of course. When ask if I believe there could be war between us I always responded "America would never go to war against the people of Iran. This answer seemed satisfactory to most for almost all understood exactly what I meant.

David from Canada 05/02/2008 08:09:47 PM IP


Conventional thinking
Who is not going to say now that the united states is in the mess it is because of it's foreign policy? It is axiomatic that if you support one small side against the greater region, you are going to be at war perpetually. Singing jingoistic slogans as bombing, bombing, bombing Iran is no more than a continuation of axis of evil, the assigning of prior guilt towards nations that do not tow america's flawed line. "A hundred years in Iraq" then seems reasonable to those who still think this is working. At least by now, Americans have enough dots to connect to see that picture. It's a question of what kind of future you want when compared to the failing present and past. Pretending to be the judge, jury and executioner of entire nations and people using pre-emptive war has not worked in the past, is not working now, nor will it. Dialogue and intelligence have given way to a policy of "us versus them", and that kind of ignorance is not working. This much is now known.

Henry from USA 05/02/2008 08:11:59 PM IP


Joke of the day
Just came in from Paris, check yahoo: Iran president said that Iran is withdrawing a proposal made in two thousand five for an international consortium to enrich uranium *the fuel for both nuclear bomb s and power plants* inside his country. How nonsense! Iran asks USA or EU or China or Russia to enrich uranium for Iran in Iran for unclear bomb. I am laughing how nuts we have got.

Gary from USA 05/02/2008 08:17:59 PM IP


Henry
Went to your sit found it the usual collection of leftist dogma. See the difference between you and me is I actually go to these places to see the truth for myself, and have indeed seem some of the ugly from both sides. You want to live in a fantasy world be my guest. I recommend a three year stint in the peace corp. would be highly enlightening for you.

Shmuel from Canada 05/02/2008 08:22:30 PM IP


It Is Always Nice to See Them Unmask Themselves
They often use masks of logic and fairness to hide their ex tree mist views and their desire to ex term in eight others. But sooner or later they show themselves for who they really are and David has unmasked himself. Just as i'm a dinner jacket has. Just as hit liar did. Just as muss a line did. Just as Stall in did. Just as they all do. They can not help it. They can only pretend to be civilized so long but sooner or later, the truth with out as it has here. No longer can David pretend to be fair. He now shows his ex tree mist agenda and once the shade has been pulled, the light comes flowing in. Even when one closes the shades, the knowledge of the light is there, just as the knowledge of what David truly wants is out in the open. Thanks for the clarity of who you really and truly are David. This is why I come here. To laugh, yes. But also to remove the blinders that many of these ex tree mists use. Blinders of fairness, equanimity, etc. But we know, yes indeed, we know.

[hadhramaut]

Gary from USA 05/02/2008 08:39:20 PM IP


Netherland
All nations have some ethnic social and cultural divisions, in my visits to Israel I never saw anything like you describe, a part tide, your either pulling my leg or do not know what the word means. The Palestinian members of government, with equal voting powers as any gem member would laugh you from the room. Every citizen of Israel is afforded the same rights by law under the constitution regardless of real I thin, creed, shad or gender. This progressive society far surpasses America in many ways as far as an open and equal society. Yes there are still problems and prejudices. The last migration of Russians have trouble now and then much of this is self inflicted I am afraid. I suggest you quit making this up as you go along and visit the place for yourself, swing thru Saudi Arabia while your there and see what differences you notice, that would be an awakening, until then all your uninformed bias is just so much juvenile non sense.

Henry from USA 05/02/2008 08:46:14 PM IP


to Gary
You remind me of an American who travels and sees the whole world in three days. I guess the only thing you can see is airport. Well, it will take about one hour to see all seven parts in those videos. In five minutes, you came with another nonsense. Did you see the handshake of Sad Dam with Donald? Even Donald could not believe that he is in the video. Did you see that? Did you see our support for Kuwait invasion? Did you see our support for invasion of Iran? Did you see our support for gassing people by the Mad Man? Did you see sanction by Clean Tone killed near one millions babies and infants? Did you see Mad Lean response to one million deaths? I have come to conclusion that either you are just a vampire *Fash East** Say On East* or purer more on. If you kill at lease know why do you kill. Or may be you do not care. Peace upon us.

David from Canada 05/02/2008 08:49:54 PM IP


Yes mule, Unmasked, the tried and true hurt girl routine.
yes mule, are you not shaking in your boots? How am I a nazi to the rodent who claimed not to be he brew? I'm a big bad nazi now. Or maybe if jar like you dropped the hurt girl routine and that Warsaw ghetto mentality of seeing threats everywhere, you could debate and actually have a point to make. What you think mule? Yours truly, nazi David.

To David from Lebanon 05/02/2008 08:58:52 PM IP


You might want to brush up on YOUR grammar also
Maybe work on that sentence structure a little? sound good? Yours, etc. Hugs & handshakes

David from Canada 05/02/2008 09:11:48 PM IP


Hiding rodents teach grammar????
Since bloody when? Go back into hiding with the rats loser, you have nothing more to say here.

Gary from USA 05/02/2008 09:15:51 PM IP


Henry tree connecting all the Dots for a change
Instead of just those that paint the picture you want to see. Attacking and entire people? Dots not adding up so you add a few? The main reason America faces the current difficulties in Iraq is the Liberal, isolationist policies of Congress, Department of State and so called academia for decades have left us militarily and politically incapable of accomplishing what to historians like me seems incredibly obvious. That nation building is a foregone conclusion, that preemption is an unwanted but necessary humanitarian responsibility, gave you a dozen examples want a hundred more. I have no crystal glass. But do you really believe the third world will peacefully emerge into the twenty first century without the combined efforts of all democratic peoples to include using force against dangerous entrenched regimes, or aggressive opposed ideologies. We did not ask for it but history has handed use the baton so run with it or you will get crushed in place.

To my sweetheart in Canada from Costa Rica 05/02/2008 09:17:15 PM IP


Do what?
Your a hiding rodent? that's weird, why would you call yourself a rodent?

ME Gnawing at Civilisation from USA 05/02/2008 09:25:26 PM IP


No one from the ME violent mind set ever DARES to define the ME itself, nor its true violent intentions towards the modern day civilised world ?
"David Boys" problem is he, like the vast majority of the violent ME mind set, can NEVER explain their true intentions, without the blatant two face hypocrisy of the ME, to cover up their centuries of indoctrinated in, mind set of hat read, warring mentality and ancient inhuman ME actions ? If David Boy is not one of the ME rodent army, sent in advance to gnaw at the walls of civilisation, and eat away the foundations of modern man kind, then what possible purpose does he serve on earth, period ? Already living in the overwhelming vast majority of the modern day civilised world, he, like so many others of the ME mind set, are attempting to destroy all that has been handed them on a west turn silver platter ? NONE even DARES to tell us what the ME mind sets futile violent ancient wars are truly all about, other than just that, an ancient failed warring society still attempting to eat away at, collapse, and conquer the modern day civilised world ?

[hadhramaut]

Slushh from United Kingdom 05/02/2008 09:26:29 PM IP


Funny
I do find it amusing when an American tells others to "brush up on your grammar." Really you guys cannot even speak english properly and then you turn around and say "brush up on your grammar." Well Jack you know what, brush up on your english.

David from Canada 05/02/2008 09:30:06 PM IP


The far right is finished
They own these wars, and the next. They own the massive debt, recession, world wide mistrust of the united states. All this they managed to do in seven years and hand the next bunch some of the worst problems the united states has ever known. They are also handing over all the dictatorial power they have managed to garner under a single president, and hand it over to a woman or a black man, hopefully to be used against them. Who needs international enemies with leaders like this? At least it is clear that the far right are going back to the political wilderness where they rightly belong. The american model for democracy has shown it's flaws. Maybe three parties is not a bad idea, like in the rest of the democratic world.

EAL from USA 05/02/2008 09:35:13 PM IP


Reality Check
Representative Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress ranted during his campaign that he would shut down Guantnomao Bay. Representative Ellison recently visited the location where he was briefed on the reality of the situation. Upon his return Representative Ellison stated that he would have to rethink his previous position. The rhetoric of a pundent, political campaign or just someone who likes to hear themselves talk is a lot different than the reality of the world we live in.

to Slushh from USA 05/02/2008 09:49:47 PM IP


From Jack
Touche, my good man, touche

TopCat from USA 05/02/2008 09:57:58 PM IP


Young!
Barrack is young and idealistic! He is a throw back to the anti war and peace activists of the sixties! He keeps saying he is the man of change. If you listen to his ideas, they are just the same ones from the forties and the sixties! There is Nothing about him that's new except his suit!

Gary to Henry from USA 05/02/2008 09:58:26 PM IP


There is some truth to what you say
I have not been able to absorb cultural details of all the places I have been, but ten years in Europe and Five in the Middle East and five more in Asia are a pretty fair sum. The visits to Israel were short a week here and two there. And my views are thru the prism of my own cultural spectrums. I can only give you the impressions of what I saw, not of what I missed. I do take the time to inquire about serious subjects as well as beer, sports and girls. As an Archeological, Anthropologist by training I have a good eye for certain things. I run at high enough levels to soon or later hear the real truth if their is such a thing most of the time. If you take facts out of historic perspective or realistic context, let us say pre and post cold war policy they quickly lose relevance. Mr. Alabama for instance wants to shack hands with I am a dinner jacket, how history will treat this we do not know. Rose and felts hands shack with Stalin is not equal his complicity with death camps.

Slushh from United Kingdom 05/02/2008 10:03:40 PM IP


Jack
Na though, don*t go on full on ghetto with me man. Cause i'll whip your candy a$$ to the max.

To Slushh from USA 05/02/2008 10:13:37 PM IP


I think you misinterpreted my last post
I was being nice to my man in the UK. Bust if you want to whip my "candy a$$" bring it on Limey.

Slushh from United Kingdom 05/02/2008 10:14:44 PM IP


Top cat
No, he is not really that young. In fact John Kennedy was younger than him when he was president. I would like to see Ron Paul as president, however that is unlikely to happen so I suppose out of the remaining candidates I would choose him.

[hadhramaut]

Slushh from United Kingdom 05/02/2008 10:20:06 PM IP


Jack you misinterpreted my last post
I was just having a laugh with my man in the US. I am not a man by the way Never heard of limey in my life, but yeah I am supposed to come from a ghetto area where postcodes are worshiped.

Space Peeple from Milky Way from USA 05/02/2008 10:27:20 PM IP


It Is Too Bad That Edward Dropped Out Of The Presidency Race--s
Ole-- BA-- ma seems to be the least harmful as President for the U.S. people and as if he would be working for world peace than Hillary would, and that is not saying much. The Mitt guy seems to talk a good talk about what he would do as President but for some deep reasoning I just do not believe a thing he says. The independent candidates seem to be the best Presidential choice. They care about the environment and global warming. They care about world peace, the middle class, small businesses, the economy, poor, sick and dying. They also care about stopping the atrocities George started and bringing the troops home. I believe if Hillary wins, the Zionism Air - Pack would run her like many crooked Politician in the U.S.. Peace to the world.

To Slushy girl from USA 05/02/2008 10:42:22 PM IP


from Jack
I see, my apologies my lady. Nice one with "Candy a$$" though. I got a giggle off that one

TopCat from USA 05/02/2008 10:44:27 PM IP


Slushy
True John Kennedy was young but had many more years of life experience! I like Ron Paul, but he will most likely be out of it tonight! Twenty states vote in our primaries today! Barrack is a big government socialist! He's anti war only to shift the money to create a nanny state like Europe! How's that working over there?

Space Peeple from Milky Way from USA 05/02/2008 11:11:36 PM IP


From Democracy Now!: Four Iraqi Relatives Killed in U.S. Raid
In Iraq, the U.S. military has admitted to killing four family members and wounding another Monday in the Ad-- war village north of Baghdad. A couple and their nineteen year - old son were instantly killed in the attack. The couple two young daughters were injured. One of them later died in the hospital of her wounds, leaving her sister-s as the only survivor. A cousin who witnessed the killings said U.S. soldiers immediately opened fire after breaking into the home. The attack came two days after the U.S. admitted to killing thirteen Iraqi civilians in an air - strike south of Baghdad. The dead included two women and an infant child. Another two child-- s were wounded. Today marks the fifth anniversary of then - Secretary of State Colin Po-- well's speech before the UN Security Council making the case for attacking Iraq. Lord save all the Iraqis from the wicked occupiers. Peace to the world.

slushh from United Kingdom 05/02/2008 11:16:22 PM IP


Europe
Well Top cat I can tell you its working rather well. Free health care and education is great, you know? Sorry you do not know do you. Ask any American who has stayed in Europe for a lengthly amount of time, how Europeans perceive Americans. Look at the knowledge of American kids compared to Europeans who are getting a free education and at least we are not forty six trillion dollars in debt.

TopCat from USA 05/02/2008 11:39:14 PM IP


Slushy
I like you! But nothing is free!!!

Space Peeple from Milky Way from USA 06/02/2008 12:01:58 AM IP


From Democracy Now!: Report: Israel Knew Syrian Target Was not a Nuclear Site---s
A new report from New Yorker correspondent See-- more, Her-- s-- he says there is no evidence that the Syrian facility bombed by Israel last September was involved in nuclear weapons. Israel says it launched the attack based on intelligence of nuclear activity. But citing American, Israeli and Syrian sources, Her-- s-- he says Israel did not know what it was targeting. Her- s-- he says Israel's main objective was to send a message to Iran. Peace to the world.

[hadhramaut]

Space Peeple from Milky Way from USA 06/02/2008 12:33:26 AM IP


From Democracy Now! Get- mo Prisoner Becomes First to Die of Natural Causes
And the New York Times has revealed new information on the first Guantanamo Bay prisoner believed to have died of natural causes. Abe-- dole Razz-- aqua Heck ma- ti died in December following a bout with cancer. U.S. forces arrested him in Afghanistan, where he was well known as a resistance fighter against the Soviet occupation of the nineteen eighties. He was accused of being a Taliban commander and held for nearly five years at Guantanamo until his death. During his interrogation Heck- ma- ti made several mentions of high - ranking Afghan officials who could have vouched for his innocence. These include Afghanistan minister of energy and a high - ranking general who Heck- ma- ti freed in a daring jail break from the Tall- i- ban top prison in nineteen ninety nine. But U.S. officials made little to no effort to contact them. The two mans now say they made personal appeals to Afghan president He- mid, Car- said and U.S. ambassador Sale- may, Share- li- sad, with no result. I believe George regime kidnaped, tortured and imprisoned and cancer poison as innocent man, thereby killing him. The Lord sees all. Peace to the world.

Space Peeple from Milky Way from USA 06/02/2008 12:50:38 AM IP


U.S. A Nation Built Off WARS and Secret WARS
War is peace. Freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength, George Orwell, from his book, Nineteen Eighty Four. I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we are really talking about peace, George Walker Bush, June eighteen, year two thousand and two. Through his policy he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and by peace shall destroy many. We wrestle not against flesh and bloods, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Send George regime to the world court for crimes against humanity. The Lord sees and knows all. Peace to the world.

To David from Canada from Canada 06/02/2008 12:52:58 AM IP


Your first post is...
one of the best. But these warmongers are like roaches, always keep coming, very difficult to eradicate.

MrFuche from Canada 06/02/2008 01:04:31 AM IP


You can trust none of them.
This anti war rhetoric is for the ME puppets. ME people, on the ME issue, can trust none of these US leaders, because they all represent warmongering US people, pi eggs (any malls) are pi eggs does not matter white or black.

Space Peeple from Milky Way from USA 06/02/2008 01:05:22 AM IP


New York Times reporter Philip S-- he-- non new book, The Commission: The Uncensored History of the Nine Eleven Investigation
S-- he-- non says Nine Eleven Commission executive director Philip Se-- li-- ow had close ties to both Secretary of State Condo Rices and Bush political adviser Carl Rove. He suggests that Se-- li-- ow sought to minimise the Bush administration's responsibility for failing to prevent the September Eleven attacks. CONDO RICEs: I believe the title was "Ben Laden determined to attack inside the United States." The Lord sees and knows all. Peace to the world.

Stand from USA 06/02/2008 01:27:14 AM IP


Stand for Justices
American is throwing stone in a glass house. American economic can collapse in a second, if Russia, China, and Iran create gas or oil currency, and encourage OPEC to use the new currency. As a result the Dollars value would be zero.

Space Peeple from Milky Way from USA 06/02/2008 02:58:48 AM IP


Mark Twain
The statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blames upon the nation that is being attacked, and every man will be glad of these conscience - soothing falsities, Mark Twain. Wars are the hobbies of half - informed child s who have somehow come into possession of the levers of power, Fred Reed. Peace to the world.

To Tonights More on posters from USA 06/02/2008 03:42:14 AM IP


Hello to all of you anti american, woman stoning killers
I voted today on who will be my countries leader. it felt good. I bet the Arab people in EVERY country in the ME wishes they could do that. (and that there won't be a revolution) I voted for Ma Cain, Take that you silly Arab warmonger sue i side killers! I am so happy for freedom! Good bye little uneducated ones!

Space Peeple from Milky Way from USA 06/02/2008 03:51:48 AM IP


Punk Unknown, you have the freedom to keep on being a more-- ron
You re- ta- rd. Now you may go back to kissing but s. Peace to the world.

seven of nine borg collective from Oman 06/02/2008 04:13:55 AM IP


hOe man! hOe man! here it comes! space a$$ cadet tell your mo ma to get off my lap!
Space A$$ cadet i did not even post on this topic simpleton! or did i? inquiring minds want to know!!! He A He A He A! you mental mid get s can not understand the power! NAZI LEE cowering behind cameras! space A$$ cadet now commenting to "UNKNOWN" and no where on here is that name! followers of the MAD BOVINE cult! the cult their pro fit had s ex with a nine year old maybe twelve but he was forty! a cult who stones women, murders so easily, executes guys in iran.. yet are so peaceful! peace to the world unless your he brew or in the "immoral" "corrupt" west! peace to the world unless you point out all the lies and false claims of peace by this cult.. peace to the world unless you mention all the verses that oppress women, oppress other rely in, murder and calls for the death anyone who wishes to leave the cult.. peace to the world unless you stand up to them to stop their "bow to us as we conquer the world or we will kill you" goal.. PEACE to the MIND LESS who know not the truth!

Space Peeple from Milky Way from USA 06/02/2008 05:20:59 AM IP


Read This Punk, Go Sit On A Rusty Nail and Then Sit On Unknown Lap
Read the Tall - mood, Euro Zionism Israel number one book of faith-s. They have copulation with three years old. And you do not want to know what they do with the dead. PUNK. All true. Peace to the world.

Omar from USA 06/02/2008 05:28:07 AM IP


What's this?
You'd think that more liberal, left minded Americans like me would post comments at this page. Why are there so many damn conservatives and fascists here drowning out the voices of the few educated Americans and the American intelligentsia? Conservative rodents don't learn anything unfortunately, no matter how much of this they read. Their logic is all screwed up, and they are incapable of critical thought, since they expect their nonexistent gods to do it for them.